8801+Weekly+Forum+Posts

=WEEK 1=

toc Reverse Desertification:
Hi, in my life time and probably most of yours we as a global population will come face to face with the consequences of increased pressure placed on farm lands that need to be capable of supporting growth of enough crops to feed the predicted 10 Billion global population that earth may need to support by 2100. This in relation to Australia is important because much of the vacant land in our north is valuable as potential farm land and it is hoped that much of this land will provide food for all the hungry mouths. Desertification however, is the direct result of putting too much pressure on soil through fertilisation and over intensification of farming practices that result in soil not being to sustain crop growth, which leads to the formation of deserts. This is already possibly happening in the Wheat Belt where 80 years ago soils that are very sandy and salty supported native vegetation growth but the trees were cut to plant wheat and breed sheep, and this lead to a rising salt level in the soil, making soil less fertile. Farmers also need to add much phosphate and nitrogen to the soil (due to the soils low nutrient binding capabilities) which also changes the microbiological community structure and diversity of the soil. Unfortunately the soil needs the microbes to keep in balance. And if the balance changes too much the result is a sandy salty acidic desert. The estimated cost to fix the problems associated in the wheastbelt is approximately 1 Billion dollars and no one has that much money and unfortunately governments do not support farmers much in relation to the prices they recieve for their crops which also means that they try to get more from the soil by adding more throwing out the balance even further. Such is life.

Hi Karl,

I've been reading about desertification in Australia since I was at school. What measures are being employed to stop the trend, and what do you think people should be doing about it? It's such an important issue, so I'm sure there must be a series of policies in place to combat it. I wonder if they're working?

I think you have raised an important challenge locally in WA as well as for the global community ie how soil management can impact on food production...which is even more of a concern for developing nations where there are large parts of their population dependent on food from subsistence practices. I was just speaking to a new student to IHS, Alekem who is from Ethiopa and it will be interesting to hear his [|perspective] on the points you raise and the measures that may be in place in his country. I thought I'd also mention a recent UN update on the Millenium Development goals [|Resilient Planet Resilient People] (2012) -that makes some further recommendations and reports on successful practice in soil management...about p38... I think. Not sure if you have come across this report yet......Mark

Dear Karl, Here in Queensland, desertification has been identified as one of the effects of climate change, but the real causes of this process are still unknown. Pickup (1998) of CSIRO described how farmers deal with the effects of land degradation and how sustainability practices have assisted their survival in the rangelands: [] Best, Dan

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">It is interesting Dan that Pickup in his paper also recognised just how complex soil degradation is...as is the case often there are a range of variables that will impact on issues. Cheers, Mark

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Unfortunately you all raise the important issue of what scients like to call the dynamic behaviour of nautre, and unfortunately this is the major reason in my opinion farmes often say that it is such a complex issue, when if they just focussed on the one issue (the way they use the land) as the major issue and managed it appropriately then the land would be able to recover. However, unfortunately farmers are bound to the leases of the land they farm, the capitalist economics that decide how much they can sell their produce for and also to the climate too, all of which relate directly back to their land. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">The price that the buyers (essentially the entire population) are paying does not reflect the degradation of the land in relation to the increasing population and as such the environmental degradation continues unabated. Which is then labelled as an unknown reason. Which is completely absured! <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">In environmental science (something that I would almost call myself an expert on after having being studying it for almost 20 years now), this is called environmental neglect on the Governments behalf to control population such that it create a sustainable poplation number that can manage the farming and land requirements in a suitable way to avoid the impacts. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Prevention is better than the cure and to say there is no cause is like saying there is nothing we can do to prevent it from happening and that is just a lame excuse for doing nothing. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">I think Bob Katter calls it "Business as Usual" and to "Build more coal power stations because Global Warming isn't happening". Wake up Australia this is non-sense! Of course the climate is changing... As a result of population! Too many people = increase in change in environmental dynamics. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Capitalism deals a cruel blow in that it only works on increasing growth, but communism is just imperialism with no choice in who rules and is a corrupt dark dark system alltogether.... <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Liberal Democrats "JFK" Bring him back!

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">It is important to have all the important literature available to everyone and not limited to a few... IHS does do this for sure...

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">This is also a political issue when it comes to items of heritage such as the Elgin Marbles taken from Greece by the British.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Many an argument can be created by people not agreeing on ownership of cultural heritage which runs deep. In Australia the cultural heritage is the dreaming, and mother earth. Little is done unfortunately to address this loss only argument as to justify cause.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">I would like to highlight something that I saw when I was in California last year whilst at a McDonald's (yes I went there).

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">At the counter where they serve the French Fries, refer below to article 1.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">I think that this highlights a lot of what you are trying to say, because in this case the State of California believes that French Fries can cause cancer however because the law that applies to the acrylamide is a Federal Law in the USA, McDonald's does not need to stop serving the fries (or have not faced any litigation in relation to such) however, because of the State Law of California clearly stating it may McDonald's now displays these warnings in their stores.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Essentially French Fries only cause cancer in California but not in other States.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Maybe California has got it right. Maybe that is why they are miles ahead of the rest of the United States in relation to many laws including this one.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Another one is Chlorinated products, which in California come under similar legislation.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">The full list is at

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">http://oehha.ca.gov/prop65/acrylamideqaall.pdf

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Many of the chemicals on this list are banned in California yet in Australia are in widespread use.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Surprising, that Australian's are so backward in so many ways!

=<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">WEEK 2 = ==<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">The definition of environment is not limited to that of our ancestural occupation: == <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">The way we define environment needs careful consideration from a geopolitical viewpoint, one not limited to physical, chemical and biological measurements due to the ever increasing globalisation and the pressure we put on humanity due to our needs not our desires.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">"Earth provides enough to satisfy every man’s need, but not every man’s greed." Mahatma Gandhi

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">When farming began in Western Australia in the 30's, the only reason it was possible to grow crops was by applying fertiliser. Phosphorus and Nitrogen (fertiliser) are added to the soil, these are essential plant nutrients as they form the DNA molecules, that the building blocks of life are. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">To grow crops the land was cleared, and people were pushed off their land (indigenous australian's), and this meant that their food sources including yams, kangaroos, and many medicines, were no longer available. This lead to many being forced to steal sheep and wheat. Which lead to their arrest and conviction. The solution to this dilemma was the White Australia Policy. Where children were taken from their mother's "for their best intersts." <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">The fact that this only occured is significant because it is still happening today to many indigeious civilisations around the world. The policy should today be regarded as nothing less than a abomination upon the people of the time, yet many politicians and public figures argue that the past has nothing to do with them. This is almost like saying that the Nazi's effects on the Jewish people has nothing to do with the ancestors of the German people. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">More recently humans have started targeting places where natural resources play a role in society, offering many things in return but more often than not the promises are only that... Whereby the politics and boardrooms of the establishment continue to use the same rules and doctrines put in place by their ancestors (but at the same time deny liability for such). The same goes for refugees entering Australia however refugees are often hated by indigenous Australian's because they seem to do better after coming from somewhere worse off. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">This is of global significance for Australia because the United Nations council lists Australia as taking the least refugees yet Australia has one of the highest per capita incomes globally. Also Australian's are quick to criticise American's for their war like tactics yet at the same time continue to purchase jets, and technologies to fund wars too. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Environment is just a word that desrcibes many things yet people sometimes do not consider enough the effects we have on it and only see themselves in the centre of it.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">The environmental issue is hunger, food comes from soil, rain and organic matter and nutrients.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">SOils in Africa are generally poor in nutrients. But the country is continuing to grow its population. This is an issue that cannot be solved with foreign aid.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">The solution needs to come from within.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">WOuld you agree with this statement? What can be done? The environment and sustainability are more so developed world concerns, because most african countries are just trying to feed themselves let alone know about sustainability principles and practices in relation to farming. I would suggest that many farmers do not like sustainability? But I don't know...

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Karl, it strikes me that you have worked in the environmental science field for over 10 years and are studying Environmental Management, but you seem to run out of interest in the scientific side of things by the time you come to your IHS posts! You're obviously interested in using this forum to discuss social aspects of displacement of people and corporate resource exploitation here. I think that's probably good if it's a counterpoint to your other subjects. And I agree that these social issues are very important as much for people as for other parts of the environment. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">For my benefit I'm hoping that with your background you can share some expertise and maybe some good sources on the natural systems implications (noting that 'environment' includes much more) of farming in the wheat belt.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 18.18181800842285px;">Banned Aid

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 16.363636016845703px;">Why International Assistance Does Not Alleviate Poverty
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Author: [|Jagdish N. Bhagwati], Senior Fellow for International Economics

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">January/February 2010 //<span style="font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Foreign Affairs //

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">The R & D debate is a good one. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Does reasearch and development cause environmental degradation that counteracts the initial process that R & D seeks to change. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">The best example is the motor vehicle. We invented the combustion engine to allow for easier transport. Then we learned it was changing the climate. So we invented electric cars, that use electricity and expensive catalysts and required lot's of R & D too. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Does the amount of R & D (in the total manufactuing system for 1 car and all associated processes along producion line) + mined catalysts + coal for electricity + building new car (resources) = an environmental saving? <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">I would argue NO. It is just shifting the burden to smaller economies that are developing. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">It's still better to burn wood than coal and in terms of CO2 emissions, but it puts out more particulate matter. is another great example...

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">When Australian's talk about sustainability and pollution we tend to talk about the probelm as being in our own backyard yet I feel that sometimes we don't consider the overarching context of it being everyone's backyard.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">For example the pollution caused by Australian's in Bali has caused a critical problem for local people.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #697f55; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px; text-decoration: none;">[]

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">The main tourist population are West Australians and Australian's however they the majority of these people don't go with any idea what they are doing to the environment over there. It is sickening. Yet they get on their high horses and into ivory towers back in Australia and claim how environmentally sustainable their lifestyles are.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">It's just not true, I think... Consider for 1 second what the Balianese think of us over there. Sure money is helping them but to what extent can a price be put on such a unique habit?

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Shame

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Is medium density worse than low density like in Australia...? <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">In Munich Germany, they have a great transport system and public transport is quite efficient, I am not sure about their emissions and their pollution, I think they are a medium density place, but they have capped the expansion of the city at a certain limit area, and not allowed to build higher than 3 or 5 levels... <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">I guess I was making the same point...

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">But what are you suggesting that we as a species should do to stop this wicked problem from occuring.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Sure the first step is determining that the issue exists, but unfortunately this is mostly all that is ever done. We all know that the issue exists but then when it is time to do anything turn away from confronting the issue at large. I was using the case of Bali to expose the fact that Australian's in particular like to think that they have a clean green image and that we consider ourselves a sustainable people, but as soon as we go to someone else's place/country treat it with disrespect, because essentially the management of the environemnt is not controlled by Australian Law yet the issues associated with the environemnt cross international borders.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">This is the issue. And sadly not much is being done on this front.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Less talk about issues and more discussion about solutions.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Is this a result of the increasing global population, and increased technology in finding fish and better bigger boats? <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">If so why isn't the UN and international laws that control use of the oceans doing anything to mitigate this and allow the fish to replenish? <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Sure its an issue but what can be done?

=WEEK 3= ==<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">The damage done by removing all the trees and turning poor soils into farm land, has caused all the salt to come to the surface of the soil and leads to desertification at the extreme. == <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Unfortunately there is nothing that can be done to solve this problem (Personal communication). This is because there is approximately 1 - 2 tonnes of salt per hectare at the surface of the soil. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">The only thing that could be done woudl be to stop farming, fence off the area and let nature return. Management of the area, will not reverse this, sustainable agriculture/organic [|perspective] s are a false falacy and will not alleviate any of the associated problems, if the same decisions continue being made in relation to farming. If you have ever spoken to a farmer in the wheatbelt they are stubborn as, and don't want to change. More nitrogen, phosphorus, etc. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Population growth will only make it worse. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">There

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Hey Karl, I'm not sure how to respond to your post this week. You are not addressing the question of solutions, but instead you're talking about the barriers to change. Just because the farmers are stubbon and resist change doesn't mean that there are no solutions to desertification in the wheat belt. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">You'd know better than me, but surely solutions like drainage systems and keyline designs offer hope for some reversal of the environmental damage that's been done? <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">There are already farmers on board with these ideas, so do you have any thoughts on how you could promote the most effective techniques across this area while also getting the support of the farmers? If they are the main barriers to change, what is needed to convince them?

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Change comes from either (i) within, (ii) force. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">No one is forcing the farmers to change, and the changes that are being made are infinitesimally small, when you consider how much salt there is. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">I asked my old Honours supervisor if there is anything that can be done to solve the salinity problem in the wheatbelt, and his answer. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">simply, No. This is a man with over 50 years experience studying soils and nature, and farming. And I think he would know. I am chosing this issue, to try and show that the environmental damage we are doing has no solution universally, as we are causing it and that change is only making it worse by definition. By fencing it all off then it would be completely un-usable for anything. That is not a bad thing! <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Question. Would nature and life continue without us here? <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Most people in the Unit will disagree with me, that's fine. I would like to see evidence to support their claims of what they would propose to do instead of ceasing to farm the land. Deep drains shift the salt to the next property down the gradient. What if the gradient is inland? I wish I knew a solution... I am working on one, when I find one I will be a Billionaire. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Most likely Solutions to human related environmental problems <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">(i) stop breeding so prolifically (watch demolition man) <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">(ii) start a revolution (Mao Zedung style) <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">(ii) get mars ready i am not going to want to hang around on the planet forever. AC Clark

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Have you looked into the planting of salt marsh plants that can tolerate high saline soil conditions and eventually led to the rehabilitation of the soil? <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">just looking at this one wiki page u can already set a trend for agricultural change. sheep take preference to this leaves of this plant, produces quality meat (income for farmers), plants are resilient to grazing and drought. Farmers plant these shrubs, raise sheep on the land, plants uptake the salt, sheep deposit nutrients, soil becomes a better condition. Then eventually you remove the salt marsh and restore native vegetation, or you go about a new round of hopefully more sustainable agriculture. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;"> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atriplex_amnicola

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">And by the way i don’t think this subject is about being a negative nancy, it’s a platform for communication to provoke ideas for change. I don’t think you should be throwing pointless rhetorical questions to the group about their intelligence over your own, "would nature and life continue without us here?" of course it would continue. It has for millions of years before us, and nature would grow into what we have created or damaged, nature is adaptive, most people in would agree. We are humans, the world is our host, and at times we are parasitic. It’s like asking the group would dogs stop existing without fleas.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">How do you know that life would continue without us here? <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">I would argue that we would keep destroying everything until everything except us is left including the single celled bacteria that we probably evolved from.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">I can’t say life would continue with a hundred percent certainty because of the unknown, but I believe nature is very adaptive, look at the hydrothermal vents for example. some of the most extreme environmental conditions on earth; such as the crushing <span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #697f55; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px; text-decoration: none;">[|water] <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;"> pressure at a depth of 3000m, water temperature to the excess of 450 degrees Celsius, acidic waters to the ph level of vinegar, complete darkness and yet life (and ecosystems) has evolved to live and sustain reproduction in this environment....I can’t imagine humans leaving this world any worse that what is experienced in the dark depths of the oceans :)

=<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">WEEK 4 = ==<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">If you were for one minute to close your eyes and view earth from the point of view of another species from another planet I think that you would definately see humanoids as a lesser species. == <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">We create class, we create law, we just create based on observation. However the truth is in our evolution or more importantly our genetic information which is incorporated into our DNA from our surroundings. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">We are in constant competition with our surrounding environment, as we are all competing for oxygen, as almost half of the weight of the crust comes from oxygen. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">If we just consider for a second that as a different speices (still looking at us as we are now) from another planet then it is impossible to argue against the assertion that we have little hope for our survival. Almost all species ever (with the exception o bacteria) have gone through evolutionary change and inevitable extinction. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Positive actions initiated by individuals, local, national and global groups hardly do anything as they only seek to serve their own needs collectively, as there is no utopian reality. The LSD hippy times are over folks. Wake up and smell the daisies.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Maybe extincion is inevitable but we're able to determine how long we stay. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Even if positive actions are initiated by self-centredness, they are still positive actions right? In some ways I hope that corporate greed turns is attention towards the profits and rewards that the renewable energy industry can bring - whatever way it's pitched, as long as we work towards that path, we'll still come closer to sustainability.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">But to know what positive actions are first you need to know what positive is right? <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">To me positive is just a charge. Like a proton. In physics positive has no emotive connotation connected to it. My concern is that people feel that they are doing the right thing and the correct thing and that therefore others are doing the wrong thing and the incorrect thing. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">This is fundamentally a flawed judgement. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Whatever you say... <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">The first law of thermodynamics is. Matter (Energy) cannot be created nor destroyed. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Therefore what ever you do in relation to renewable energy or any energy source for that matter, there will be an equal or opposite effect. What this effect will be in relation to renewables we don't know yet just like when we first invented the combustion engine, we had no idea about CO2!

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Well, we didn't know about CO2's effects in our atmosphere, but we knew about CO2 from perhaps 1750: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide#History <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">I'd say we are pretty clear on what energy transformations are involved (yes, none is created or destroyed, just transformed). Wind or [|water] connects with a turbine, and some of its kinetic energy transfers to the blades of the turbine, some heat is produced, and the wind or water looses the equivalent amount of energy. This is partly the science of fluid mechanics. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_mechanics <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">There is no mystery in the thermodynamics involved. But Karl I think you mean the potential pitfalls of renewable energy, from a whole of system [|perspective], and there are some of those. I don't think you can validly pass them off as the first law of thermodynamics though.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Ok, so what about the decomisioning of photovolatics after use in the case of solar. The mining of rare earths needed to produce the reflective surfaces, and the catalysis products needed to react with the silicate minerals to produce the right reaction temperature gradients and the associated waste run off products. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">If you also take into consideration that many of these products are manufactured in China where environmental considerations are minimal the waste is just dumped into local rivers. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Plus on the side against making another Franklin Dam situation, I think the people already spoke against this scenario. Let's not dam the Franklin. It is too beautiful. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">If you refer to tidal, there are also many different effects this could have on fish species, whale calving grounds and the like that may not have been considered.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">If you believe you are being exceptional it is only because you think that you are an exceptional personal. What makes you different to other people is nothing more than your DNA and your genes.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">What you are made of, your physical nature dictates your mental capacity.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">By saying that you are an exceptional person are you not judging those people who may not think that they are exceptional, thus would this not be a two class society, similar to the have and have not's system? Above and bel;ow the poverty line for example is an analogy of what I am trying to explain here.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">That the people who live above the poverty line need to feel like that they are doing something for those who live below it. See the Allegory of the Cave.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #697f55; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px; text-decoration: none;">[]

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">or

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;"> [|Plato] 's **theory of Forms** or **theory of Ideas** which asserts that non-material abstract (but [|substantial] ) forms (or ideas), and not the material world of change [|known to us through sensation], possess the highest and most fundamental kind of reality.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Such that people who posess this exceptional humanlike quality that you talk about, may feel that they posess the higher and most fundamental kind of reality, but I would argue here that this is just a Problem of the Universals. They are not proven that they exist...

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Hence, exceptional people are only those that believe. And this has nothing to do with reality, rather only belief itself.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Don Watson discusses many things but in relation to our environment and our nature, i cannot believe that a class of people who posess a more fundamental form of reality (or exceptional trait) will solve all the worlds problems and actually create a unified holistic alltruistic global population because such ideas are utopian.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">How so is everyone exceptional? <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Are you saying that everyone in the world is the same then or is it that everyone has the ability to be exceptional? If so then who is the judge of this exceptionality (as a generic label of the word itself)? Do you consiously judge your own exceptional traits against others or not? <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">I think there are people who just make more effort than others in their own pursuits in life (they don't give up even when other tell them it's not worth it they believe in something that others don't e.g. the Jews of Nazareth did they give up?), who believe that what they are doing is consciously within their limitation of moral values that is all. Now when you go outside of these limitation, this is an area where I am not too sure about, because who decides what is morally correct (or in your case an exceptional trait). I would guess society itself. However, unfortunatley society is ruled by a class system. There is a poverty line and people will do anything to have what others have because they want to seen to have something that other's don't. A car, a fridge, a T.V. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">All we need is food, [|water], shelter, nurturing. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">So if what you are saying is that everyone should be equal and that this exceptionality be shared amoungst everyone why has communism failed whereby millions of Chinese live in Poverty and some of the ruling class in China are Billionaires. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Don Watsons makes it quite clear I think.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">So how would we find non-idealised self-actualisation?

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">In relation to wisdom, I agree Tim.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">I totally agree that we as a species cannot see past our own lifetime. We cannot in our vision predict what will happen because this would require us to able to be able live immortally. We cannot predict what our future generations will do, as there is no way of being able to judge what they will think of us.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">The only thing we can do is go on the history. And unfortunately our ancestors have not served us well. WW1 WW2 are prime examples quoted by Watson. My hope is that our ancestors will evolve and will manage the survival of our species through natural selection.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">The sooner we get over the obstacle that our species will eventually reach some sort of Zanadu, or Zion, or Utopia that many of our fellow classmates have spoken about the better in my opinion. It is just not something that will ever happen!


 * <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 10pt; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Kant's "Copernican revolution", that placed the role of the human subject or knower at the center of inquiry into our knowledge, such that it is impossible to philosophize about things as they are independently of us or of how they are for us;


 * <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 10pt; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">His invention of critical philosophy, that is of the notion of being able to discover and systematically explore possible inherent limits to our ability to know through philosophical reasoning


 * <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 10pt; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">His creation of the concept of "conditions of possibility", as in his notion of "the conditions of possible experience" – that is that things, knowledge, and forms of consciousness rest on prior conditions that make them possible, so that, to understand or to know them, we must first understand these conditions


 * <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 10pt; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">His theory that objective experience is actively constituted or constructed by the functioning of the human mind


 * <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 10pt; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">His notion of moral autonomy as central to humanity


 * <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 10pt; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">His assertion of the principle that human beings should be treated as ends rather than as means.

=<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 10pt; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">WEEK 6: =

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">To what extent do you believe that your national government has taken a leadership role on environmental sustainability?

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">( Edited by [|aaAngela Mark Neville aaTutors] - original submission Sunday, 2 September 2012, 11:16 AM )

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">My Government has tried to make a go of environmental sustainability.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #697f55; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px; text-decoration: none;">[]

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">The question is, whether the things that politicians say and do will mean that improvements to the environment result, but how do we measure this?

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Is sustainability just in the interest of getting people to vote for them at the next election. I think not, but everytime someone talks about sustainability i always take it with a grain of salt. A lot of the time people use the word sustainabiltiy to sell something. In the case of politicians it could be a new policy, a new law, or a tax.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Take the new carbon tax. The whole point of it was to lower carbon emissions, however because the coal power stations have vested interests in politics, they are subsidised and this has resulted in them just paying the fine. This is not sustainability in politics and not a leadership solution that has done anything towards solving the climate change problem, which requires sustainable energy sources.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">but how do you measure sustainability? There is no SI unit for it...

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13.63636302947998px;">Unsure, but not uneducated!

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">I am skeptical about the contribution of the World Bank'a contribution towards global sustainability. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">The US is the largest supporter of funding and political influence in relation to the direction it takes. The World Bank thus must be in some undeniable way running a similar political pathway to the US political system. The links can be found in Wikipedia under criticisms. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">The main problem is that because the US is not nessecarily a sustainable nation in its own right. The definition of sustainability globally is so loose that it makes a mockery of many a scientist who tries to enter a political debate in the US. Al Gore tried to speak up about many such issues. Even he is getting rich off sustainability yet how would we measure whether the tree plantation is South America that he has so much money invested in is a sustainable practice? <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">The jury is out in my opinion, Until a certain rate or constant can be found for the term then it still will just be a buzz word for me,...

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">The problem is that most sustainability policy is driven by a top down approach. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">Especially in relation to things like climate change...

=<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">WEEK 7: = <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">When I was a kid and went to the shopping centre I always wanted to get the yoghurt with the movie pictures on it. When I went to the cinema I always wanted to have the toy in the merchandise store. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">Children are unfortunately the easiest targets when it comes to propaganda, and marketing companies use it to their full advantage. "Hey kids, you need this because all the other kids have it"... "Mum can I have that, No = Temper Tantrum". <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">Recently they removed junk food commercials off the television to stop kids wanting junk food all the time, was this a solution? I am not too sure, I think that it probably helped but marketing companies aren't dumb and they certainly have a lot of cash to throw at learning about the subconscience and behaviours of humans. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">We are all a target, the trick is to just buy what you need. Easier said than done. Another one is credit card companies offering you more credit which is suposed to help you lower your debt. Fat chance Mr Goldberg!

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">I agree. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">Temper tantrums are it would seem becoming more and more acceptable in a global economy. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">I would not like to think let it consume me, the kinds of marketing that is profiled on the children? Are there age limits? Are the marketing campaigns tested or legal under human rights laws, are privacy laws considererd, the rights to privacy? <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">At the end of the day the parents have the choice, however how far are the psychologists and psychiatrists that are employed by the marketers used to ensure that the battle for choice and purcahse continues. <span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">Little Johnny might not get the toy today but I would bet the next time he sees the marketing (that which he has no idea about of course) the temper tantrum will be twice as bad. Pre-conditioned marketing fueling the psyche of children at the whim of parents.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">I hate to break it to you Tim, but you can bring your child up espousing the sins of consumerism and saying "no" to most unnecessary merchandise...but then they'll hit 13 or so and they'll turn into consumers. The advertising and peer pressure seems to much for them to cope with. So do your best, but don't be upset when they turn around and act exactly how you have taught them not to!

=<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">Week 8 =

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">Social Media
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">It is impossible to say that social media has not influenced my thinking and or activities in relation to IHS over the last year.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">This is mainly due to the following reasons...

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">1.) The Unit IHS is online and based on online integration and collaboration, which in a way is the whole point of social media.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">2.) Social media is a way of bringing people closer together, the skills that i have learned in IHS have been integral in how I learn about international issues from the [|perspective] of my online friends in other countries and how I share my knowledge about issues with them.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">3.) IHS is in a way a supplementary social media in that we discuss issues online and learn in a social environment are encouraged to share our skills and wisdom of a plethora of issues and suggest solutions to other people's issues too. This is social media to a T... Sharing knowledge and skills on issues brings people closer together and helps bridge information gaps from a 3rd person perspective.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">4.) I have posted information on my social media about the unit and have also shared my social media information on IHS too.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">So in summary social media = IHS and vice versa, only it is more defined and perscribed to core goals and objectives, where social media is more genereal yet personal and globalised...

=<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">Week 9: =

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">Freedom of Speech in Australia
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">In Australia the right of Freedom of Speech is not like that in America where half of my family is from. I am a first Australian in my family, and I was always taught to speak my mind, however in Australia this is very often seen as something one must avoid!

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">I believe that there is an undercurrent in Australia that dictates who can say what and it is based on an Establishment of wealthy Australian's trying to keep the rest of the nation under control from rising up and becoming more empowered to take control of their actions and words.

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 13px;">See Australian Sedition Law, whereby someone can be thrown in to jail for speaking up against something. This issue is also in the news recently and in the High Court but most news carriers won't show it, could they be a part of the Establishment I talk about? A likely response, Absurd, Never this man doesn't know what he is talking about...

<span style="display: block; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 10pt;"> People should be free to express their views publically without fear of incarciration, regardless of what they say amounts to. If they hold a view that in some way causes an action and it can be proven then by all means they should be held accountable for what they said. What is important is the issue, that breeds fear of speaking up. This is the wicked problem. People should be able to believe what they want to believe, if it is in the best interests of others or not. If people are not allowed the solitary right of thought, through fear of persecution for their beliefs then how come they be free? Incarciration is the right thing when people are guilty of committing a particular crime through their actions, however it is far harder to actually prove guilt by just saying "he told me to do it". This did not work during the Nuremberg trials, and cannot be used as an excuse! Politicians and the Media, are guilty by association but do not live under the same guise as the majority of Australians, and this is the nature of the issue I was talking about. That the wealthy and mighty few in the Establishment control the majority of things in relation to Freedom of Speech which why this is a Wicked Issue. For fear is the root of all evil. Had there

<span style="display: block; font-family: Georgia,Times,'Times New Roman',serif; font-size: 10pt;">